A ti que te encanta aprender de historia a través de películas, deberías ver la película sobre Sri Ramanujan, el matemático indio que recibía ecuaciones de una diosa hindú en sueños. Fue el mayor matemático de su tiempo.Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 11:34 am la gente puede creer en el sol, en saturno, en zeus o en cristo, pero el telescopio lo construyó un homo sapiens usando su cerebro y compuso una obra musical con su cerebro y no porque alguien se le apareció en una montaña y le pasó el diagrama o las partituras de como hacerlo.
Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
Lander escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 11:32 am The Vatican is using donations for the poor to fight its budget deficit, report says
Peter’s Pence is the name given to the financial support offered by the faithful to the Holy Father as a sign of their sharing in the concern of the Successor of Peter for the many different needs of the Universal Church and for the relief of those most in need.
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secr ... dex_en.htm
Y así se me ha informado en la parroquia. Así que cuando pongo mi donación en el sobre del Peter’s Pence, estoy totalmente conciente que el uso de tal donación queda a la discreción del Pontífice. El uso de solo un 10% para cubrir el déficit del vaticano, que califica dentro de "necesidades de la Iglesia Universal", es en mi opinión muy bueno pues significa que el 90% es destinado a los pobres.
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si, ya vi esa película, de hecho la he visto como 30 veces. y sabes lo mas GRACIOSO de la historia, que gracias al ATEO de Hardy fue que el mundo lo pudo conocer, de lo contrario, Ramanujan se hubiera quedado en la india recibiendo ecuaciones "en sueños"verdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 11:47 amA ti que te encanta aprender de historia a través de películas, deberías ver la película sobre Sri Ramanujan, el matemático indio que recibía ecuaciones de una diosa hindú en sueños. Fue el mayor matemático de su tiempo.Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 11:34 am la gente puede creer en el sol, en saturno, en zeus o en cristo, pero el telescopio lo construyó un homo sapiens usando su cerebro y compuso una obra musical con su cerebro y no porque alguien se le apareció en una montaña y le pasó el diagrama o las partituras de como hacerlo.
¿dónde estaba la diosa hindú que no le pagó el boleto para cambridge o lo promocionó ante el circulo de académicos británicos?
¿o es que también en el hinduismo los dioses "obran de forma misteriosa" a través de los ateos?
jua jua jua
“Si ellos siguen repitiendo sus mentiras, nosotros tenemos que seguir repitiendo la verdad” Ludwig von Mises
- Don Cuchara D`Mata
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
El eterno dilema, unos intentando convencer a otros. Hablare desde mi experiencia, parafraseando a Axio, deje de creer en divinidades cuando comprendi que estas existian porque los hombres dabamos fuerza a su existencia, así que me sumergí en una profunda batalla existencial para decirle a esos crédulos, asi les digo, que más allá de esa fe que emplean para corroborar una existencia divina no hay nada más, que la ciencia tampoco puede demostrar la no existencia de DI? Cierto! No ha podido, no se si en un mañana logre hacerlo o sencillamente sucederá en muchos como sucedió conmigo, deje de preocuparme por algo en lo que sencillamente no creo, deje al que si cree preocuparse de las incongruencias de la biblia. No es asunto mio, es de ellos, así que lidien ellos con eso y que sean ellos los que debatan y gasten su tiempo y neuronas en responderse a si mismos.
Qué tiene un ateo que discutir sobre religion? En mi opinion nada, por qué lo hacemos? Porque sentimos un morbo único, nos encanta llevar al extremo la paciencia de los credulos, comprobar cuan profunda y autentica es esa fe con la que se escudan, pero que es quebrantada por ellos mismos cuando la oportunidad se les ha presentado.
Solo por eso debatia en temas de religión, pero como toda entidad pensante y con un norte definido en su vida, un dia entendí que quien realmente era ignorante, ese era yo. Por qué? Porque lo hacia por burla, por nada más.
Eso es todo lo que tenia que aportar a este tema que para mi tiene años superado.
Qué tiene un ateo que discutir sobre religion? En mi opinion nada, por qué lo hacemos? Porque sentimos un morbo único, nos encanta llevar al extremo la paciencia de los credulos, comprobar cuan profunda y autentica es esa fe con la que se escudan, pero que es quebrantada por ellos mismos cuando la oportunidad se les ha presentado.
Solo por eso debatia en temas de religión, pero como toda entidad pensante y con un norte definido en su vida, un dia entendí que quien realmente era ignorante, ese era yo. Por qué? Porque lo hacia por burla, por nada más.
Eso es todo lo que tenia que aportar a este tema que para mi tiene años superado.
- verdinegro
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Dudo que Hardy haya sido ateo al final de sus días pues lo que hacía Ramanujan lo dejaba perplejo.Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:07 pm
si, ya vi esa película, de hecho la he visto como 30 veces. y sabes lo mas GRACIOSO de la historia, que gracias al ATEO de Hardy fue que el mundo lo pudo conocer, de lo contrario, Ramanujan se hubiera quedado en la india recibiendo ecuaciones "en sueños"![]()
¿dónde estaba la diosa hindú que no le pagó el boleto para cambridge o lo promocionó ante el circulo de académicos británicos?
¿o es que también en el hinduismo los dioses "obran de forma misteriosa" a través de los ateos?
Los dioses no se encargan de pagar boletos ni de cosas mundanas. Ramanujan murió joven porque el mundo todavía no está preparado ni tampoco merece la tecnología que describen los Vedas y otros textos antiguos.
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verdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 11:20 am Los ateos fundamentalistas no sólo pretenden que mueran los dioses sino la experiencia trascendente religiosa.
¿"Los ateos fundamentalistas"? que gracioso suena, porque mejor no decir, homo sapiens fundamentalistas? o mejor, el universo fundamentalista con una naturaleza atea que no cree en dioses a la hora de mantener el equilibrio de la vida en este planeta.....
ahora volviendo a la cita anterior: ¿cómo matar algo que nunca existió?
ahora, otra cosa es intentar desenmascarar los prejuicios culturales.... que es la otra definición para las religiones.
“Si ellos siguen repitiendo sus mentiras, nosotros tenemos que seguir repitiendo la verdad” Ludwig von Mises
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
Ramanujan se murió porque:verdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:21 pmDudo que Hardy haya sido ateo al final de sus días pues lo que hacía Ramanujan lo dejaba perplejo.Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:07 pm
si, ya vi esa película, de hecho la he visto como 30 veces. y sabes lo mas GRACIOSO de la historia, que gracias al ATEO de Hardy fue que el mundo lo pudo conocer, de lo contrario, Ramanujan se hubiera quedado en la india recibiendo ecuaciones "en sueños"![]()
¿dónde estaba la diosa hindú que no le pagó el boleto para cambridge o lo promocionó ante el circulo de académicos británicos?
¿o es que también en el hinduismo los dioses "obran de forma misteriosa" a través de los ateos?
Los dioses no se encargan de pagar boletos ni de cosas mundanas. Ramanujan murió joven porque el mundo todavía no está preparado ni tampoco merece la tecnología que describen los Vedas y otros textos antiguos.
- no se cuidó, o no había o no recibió el tratamiento medico correcto en el momento que lo necesitaba.... o porque sencillamente le tocaba irse.... la vida es menos que un soplo en este vasto multiverso..... para morirse la condición es estar vivo primero.....
“Si ellos siguen repitiendo sus mentiras, nosotros tenemos que seguir repitiendo la verdad” Ludwig von Mises
- verdinegro
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Los ateos fundamentalistas de la Revolución Francesa y los comunistas han matado a más gente.Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:26 pmverdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 11:20 am Los ateos fundamentalistas no sólo pretenden que mueran los dioses sino la experiencia trascendente religiosa.
¿"Los ateos fundamentalistas"? que gracioso suena, porque mejor no decir, homo sapiens fundamentalistas? o mejor, el universo fundamentalista con una naturaleza atea que no cree en dioses a la hora de mantener el equilibrio de la vida en este planeta.....![]()
![]()
![]()
ahora volviendo a la cita anterior: ¿cómo matar algo que nunca existió?
ahora, otra cosa es intentar desenmascarar los prejuicios culturales.... que es la otra definición para las religiones.
- Axio
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
en mi caso, lo único que deseo es acabar con los principales prejuicios culturales que esc0ñetan a la humanidad, enseñarle a las futuras generaciones que la vida se puede vivir plena y en paz socialmente sin tener que recurrir a seres imaginarios, sino en saber respetar a los demás y que no cultiven ese odioso vicio que es la hipocresía, que sean honestos mas consigo mismos que con los demás....Don Cuchara D`Mata escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:08 pm ....
Qué tiene un ateo que discutir sobre religion? En mi opinion nada, por qué lo hacemos? Porque sentimos un morbo único, nos encanta llevar al extremo la paciencia de los credulos, comprobar cuan profunda y autentica es esa fe con la que se escudan, pero que es quebrantada por ellos mismos cuando la oportunidad se les ha presentado.
...
“Si ellos siguen repitiendo sus mentiras, nosotros tenemos que seguir repitiendo la verdad” Ludwig von Mises
- Axio
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
bueno si vamos a mezclar religión con política, te recuerdo que el galáctico de barinas era un ferviente y devoto cristiano, que iba a misa y siempre sacaba un cristo en las cadenas presidenciales.verdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:34 pmAxio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:26 pmverdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 11:20 am Los ateos fundamentalistas no sólo pretenden que mueran los dioses sino la experiencia trascendente religiosa.
¿"Los ateos fundamentalistas"? que gracioso suena, porque mejor no decir, homo sapiens fundamentalistas? o mejor, el universo fundamentalista con una naturaleza atea que no cree en dioses a la hora de mantener el equilibrio de la vida en este planeta.....![]()
![]()
![]()
ahora volviendo a la cita anterior: ¿cómo matar algo que nunca existió?
ahora, otra cosa es intentar desenmascarar los prejuicios culturales.... que es la otra definición para las religiones.
Los ateos fundamentalistas de la Revolución Francesa y los comunistas han matado a más gente.
¿indica o implica eso algo?
en lo absoluto.....
“Si ellos siguen repitiendo sus mentiras, nosotros tenemos que seguir repitiendo la verdad” Ludwig von Mises
- verdinegro
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
Los revolucionarios de Francia y los comunistas mataron a más gente en nombre de su ateísmo fundamentalista.Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:36 pmbueno si vamos a mezclar religión con política, te recuerdo que el galáctico de barinas era un ferviente y devoto cristiano, que iba a misa y siempre sacaba un cristo en las cadenas presidenciales.verdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:34 pmAxio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:26 pm
¿"Los ateos fundamentalistas"? que gracioso suena, porque mejor no decir, homo sapiens fundamentalistas? o mejor, el universo fundamentalista con una naturaleza atea que no cree en dioses a la hora de mantener el equilibrio de la vida en este planeta.....![]()
![]()
![]()
ahora volviendo a la cita anterior: ¿cómo matar algo que nunca existió?
ahora, otra cosa es intentar desenmascarar los prejuicios culturales.... que es la otra definición para las religiones.
Los ateos fundamentalistas de la Revolución Francesa y los comunistas han matado a más gente.
¿indica o implica eso algo?
en lo absoluto.....
En España llegaron incluso al extremo de ejecutar una estatua del crucificado.
Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
Los ateos durante la guerra civil española ejecutaron a más de 6000 sacerdotes y religiosasverdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:39 pm Los revolucionarios de Francia y los comunistas mataron a más gente en nombre de su ateísmo fundamentalista.
En España llegaron incluso al extremo de ejecutar una estatua del crucificado.
Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
Se va a discutir quien mato mas gente ? En serio ?
Habria que empezar por el mismisimo dios del antiguo testamento. Cuantos mato en el supuesto diluvio universal?

O entre cristianos :
Throughout Europe, the number of wars, expulsions, massacres, and executions that accompanied the Reformation are almost beyond counting. Following are the major Christian-versus-Christian bloodbaths:
France
Protestantism sprouted in Catholic France, and King Henry II vowed to destroy it. He created a heresy court that became known as the Burning Chamber because of its standard sentence for Huguenots (the French name for Protestants). In 1559, France and Spain signed a treaty agreeing to extirpate Protestantism from their lands.
For a while, French queen mother Catherine de Medici allowed Huguenots to worship in certain locales. But Catholic dukes massacred the worshipers—setting off religious warfare that broke out again and again. Altogether, eight Huguenot wars occurred between 1562 and 1589. Each side was brutal. Huguenot soldiers smashed church ornaments and hunted priests like animals. One captain wore a necklace of priests’ ears. A French observer reported:
“It would be impossible to tell you what barbarous cruelties are committed by both sides. Where the Huguenot is master, he ruins the images and demolishes the sepulchres and tombs. On the other hand, the Catholic kills, murders, and drowns all those whom he knows to be of that sect, until the rivers overflow with them.”
Pope Pius sent troops to France to help fight the Huguenots, and ordered the commander to kill every prisoner taken. Pius was later canonized as a saint.
After the third war, Catherine de Medici sought to end the horror by arranging the marriage of her daughter to a young Huguenot prince, Henry of Navarre. Perversely, when Huguenots gathered in Paris for the wedding under a promise of safe passage, Catherine plotted with Catholic dukes to assassinate the Huguenot military leader, Admiral Gaspard de Coligny. The assassin missed, merely wounding the admiral—so Catherine and the dukes hastily decided to murder all Huguenots before they had time to counterattack. On the night of August 24, 1572—St. Bartholomew’s Day—Catholic troops swept through Huguenot neighborhoods in Paris, slaughtering thousands. Coligny was beheaded. Other massacres were staged throughout France.
Coligny’s head was sent to Rome, where Pius’s successor, Pope Gregory XIII, received it joyfully. He and the whole college of cardinals offered a mass of thanksgiving. The pope struck a medal celebrating the Catholic victory and commissioned the artist Giorgio Vasari to paint a fresco of the triumph over the Huguenots.
SAINT BARTHOLOMEW’S DAY MASSACRE: ANNIVERSARY. Aug 24, 1572. Massacre in Paris and throughout France of thousands of Protestant Huguenots. Pope Gregory XIII ordered a medal struck to commemorate the event, but Protestant countries abhorred the killings, estimated at 5k to 30k. pic.twitter.com/TQooeSERAa
— Genealogy Bargains (@geneabargains) August 24, 2021
The St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre naturally triggered a fourth Huguenot war, and four more followed. Finally, Huguenot Henry of Navarre was offered the crown as king of France if he would convert to Catholicism. He did so, saying cynically, “Paris is worth a mass.” He issued the Edict of Nantes allowing Protestants to worship. After his death, however, all civil rights were stripped from Huguenots and they were persecuted ruthlessly. More civil wars erupted in the 1620s. In 1715, King Louis XIV proudly declared that all Protestantism had been suppressed in France.
Hundreds of thousands of Huguenots fled during the horrors. One colony settled in Florida, preceding what is now St. Augustine. A Spanish expedition discovered the colony in 1565 and killed virtually every person. The Spanish commander erected a sign saying the settlers were executed “not as Frenchmen but as Lutherans.”
The Low Countries
When Protestantism took root in the Low Countries, Catholic rulers vowed to obliterate it at any cost. Dowager queen Mary of Hungary, regent of Flanders, ordered execution of all heretics, “care being taken only that the provinces are not entirely depopulated.” The Inquisition killed multitudes. Mary decreed that Protestants who recanted would be spared burning; instead, the men would be killed by sword and the women buried alive.
The great Flemish mapmaker Gerardus Mercator was caught in a roundup of suspected Lutherans in 1544. Of those arrested with him, two were burned, two were buried alive, and one was beheaded. Mercator finally was released through efforts of his parish priest.
Spanish King Philip II, ruler of Holland and Belgium, was obsessed with halting Protestantism in those lands. He revived the Inquisition and commanded: “Let all prisoners be put to death, and suffer them no longer to escape through the neglect, weakness, and bad faith of the judges.” Protestants rebelled and burned 400 Catholic churches. The Duke of Alva was sent to smash Protestant towns. His onslaught was called “the Spanish fury.” He killed thousands in Antwerp and massacred Haarlem Protestants in 1573. He set up a heresy court, popularly called the Bloody Tribunal, which sent throngs of suspected Protestants to be executed. A Dutch chronicler wrote:
“The gallows, the wheel, stakes, trees along the highways, were laden with carcasses or limbs of those who had been hanged, beheaded, or roasted.”
One of the victims was Count Egmont, whose martyrdom was commemorated by Beethoven in the Egmont Overture.
In the northern districts of Holland, Protestants led by William of Orange declared their independence from Catholic Spain. Philip II offered 25,000 crowns of gold for William’s assassination, and he was killed in 1584. But William’s militant Calvinists continued fighting
until they secured Protestant independence for the northern provinces.
England
The Catholic Church decreed that the Bible could be printed only in Latin, restricting it to priests and scholars. Printing it in a common language for common people was punishable by death. In England in the 1520s, William Tyndale sought permission to translate the New Testament into English so “every plowboy” might read it. The request put his life in danger, and he fled to Lutheran territory in Germany. He completed a translation and smuggled copies back to England—where they were seized and burned by Catholic bishops. Tyndale eventually was captured in Antwerp by Catholic authorities, who tried him for heresy and had him strangled and burned. (Later, much of Tyndale’s magnificent prose was incorporated into the King James version of the Bible.)
The execution of William Tyndale, 1536. Translating the Bible into English gave him some very powerful enemies, who eventually caught up with him. https://t.co/vD0oIEtQqh
— John Welford (@welfordwrites) June 15, 2022
English King Henry VIII, who cynically used religion for power, had attempted to capture and try Tyndale. Henry also denounced Martin Luther and Protestantism, for which the pope gratefully proclaimed him a “Defender of the Faith.”
But when Henry wanted to divorce Catherine of Aragon, and the pope refused permission, the headstrong king arranged to divorce England from Catholicism. Parliament made the king, not the pope, supreme head of the church in England. Henry chose an obedient archbishop, Thomas Cranmer, who dissolved his unwanted marriage. Henry also seized the rich lands of formerly Catholic monasteries throughout England. The pope excommunicated Henry and tried to mount a crusade against England, but Catholic rulers around Europe declined to participate.
Henry fashioned a formal Church of England retaining most Catholic dogmas—and made it a capital offense to doubt those dogmas. Thus he executed stubborn Catholics such as Sir Thomas More, who voiced loyalty to the pope, and he also burned Lutherans who questioned transubstantiation. After Henry was succeeded by his 10-year-old son, Edward VI, further breaks from Catholicism were achieved by Archbishop Cranmer.
Edward was succeeded in 1553 by Mary I, daughter of Henry and Catherine of Aragon—and she became history’s “Bloody Mary.” An ardent Catholic, she sought to restore England to Catholicism through terror. In three years, she burned 300 Protestants alive. Archbishop
Cranmer wavered, first embracing Catholicism, then renouncing it. He was sent to the stake but he impressed the crowd by declaring his shame at recanting, and thrust into the flames his hand that had betrayed him by signing an oath to the pope.
When bishops Nicholas Ridley and Hugh Latimer went to the stake, the latter declared: “Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man. We shall this day light such a candle by God’s grace in England as I trust shall never be put out.” He was right. The English, sickened by the executions and impressed by the martyrs’ bravery, turned intensely Protestant.
On this day, in 1555, Nicholas Ridley & Hugh Latimer were burned at the stake for preaching justification by faith alone. Latimer said, “Be of good cheer, Master Ridley, and play the man; we shall this day light a candle in England, by God’s grace, that shall never be put out.” pic.twitter.com/9ZYGfbvnUU
— Dustin Benge (@DustinBenge) October 16, 2021
When Elizabeth I succeeded to the throne, she sought to end the religious killings. But she was caught in a church crossfire. From one side, Catholics plotted against her life and staged a rebellion in the north. From the other side, extreme Protestant Puritans and Separatists raged against popery and “Romish dregs” in the Church of England. In retaliation, Parliament passed harsh laws making it treason to celebrate the Catholic mass, and also forbidding Puritan worship. A fine of twenty pounds a month was imposed on anyone not attending Anglican services.
About 200 Catholics were executed as traitors under Elizabeth—and Mary, Queen of Scots, was beheaded because Catholics conspired to put her on Elizabeth’s throne. In addition, three fanatical Puritans were put to death.
Amid this strife, King Philip II sent the Spanish Armada on a holy mission to force England’s return to Catholicism. But that too failed, and England remained Protestant.
Scotland
Before Mary, Queen of Scots, met the headsman in England, she participated in Catholic-Protestant bloodshed in Scotland.
The Reformation brought the same horror to Scotland as to other lands. The Catholic parliament banned Lutheran books and preaching. Cardinal David Beaton burned Protestant leaders Patrick Hamilton and George Wishart. Then their followers murdered Beaton, hung his body from the wall of St. Andrew’s Castle, and barricaded themselves in the castle.
John Knox became chief of the besieged Protestants. When French Catholic troops finally helped Scottish Catholics seize the castle, Knox and his colleagues were sent into slavery aboard French galleys. English intervention obtained his release nineteen months later, and he began preaching in England and on the continent.
Scotland was ruled by Mary of Lorraine, of France’s fiercely Catholic House of Guise. She denounced Scot Protestants as heretics. Protestant lairds rebelled, summoned Knox from Geneva to be their voice, and waged war against Catholic strongholds. They seized Edinburgh and, with English help, gained control of Scotland. A Protestant parliament renounced the pope and decreed death to anyone who attended Catholic mass more than twice.
Mary of Lorraine died and her 18-year-old daughter, also Mary, came from France to be queen of Scots. She was an immature Catholic ruler in a land seething with Protestantism. She might have coped, but she married a Catholic scoundrel, then conspired to have him murdered, then married his chief assassin. Protestant lairds rebelled again. They defeated Mary’s Catholic troops at Carberry Hill near Edinburgh and jailed her in an island castle.
Mary escaped, and another Catholic army rallied around her—but it too was smashed by Protestant forces. Mary fled to England, where she was imprisoned eighteen years by Queen Elizabeth, until Catholic insurrection plots finally led to her beheading.
Thirty Years’ War
The last great spasm of the Reformation was its worst. The Thirty Years’ War, from 1618 to 1648, killed millions in Central Europe and left Germany a wasteland of misery.
"The Thirty Years' War was largely waged within the Holy Roman Empire from 1618 to 1648. One of the most destructive wars in European history, it caused an estimated 4.5 to 8 million deaths." https://t.co/Y0DLX1pcdk
— Church and State (@ChurchAndStateN) June 21, 2022
It began because Catholic Habsburg rulers of the Holy Roman Empire tried to suppress growing Calvinism in regions already smoldering with Catholic-Lutheran tensions. Evangelical princes formed a defensive alliance, the Protestant Union. The other side formed the Catholic League. They faced each other like ticking bombs—which finally exploded over a trifle: Protestant nobles entered the imperial palace in Prague and threw two Catholic ministers out a window into a dungheap, touching off war.
Catholic armies quickly slaughtered the Protestant forces. The conflict might have ended then, but Catholic Emperor Ferdinand II decided to eradicate Protestantism entirely. The faith was outlawed and cruel persecution was inflicted.
Protestants appealed for foreign help, and Protestant King Christian IV of Denmark sent an army to their rescue. Lutheran and Calvinist German princes joined him. Once again the Protestants were defeated, once again Ferdinand resumed religious oppression, and once again the victims sought outside aid.
Next, Protestant King Gustav Adolph of Sweden marched into Germany to rescue his fellow believers. His soldiers sang Martin Luther’s hymn Ein Teste Burg in battle. Terrible slaughter occurred. A Catholic army captured Magdeburg and massacred its Protestant residents. King Gustav was killed, and his troops wreaked vengeance on Catholic peasants.
Eventually the war turned more political than religious. Catholic France entered on the side of the Protestants, in an attempt to cripple the rival Habsburgs. The killing dragged on decade after decade until both sides were too exhausted to continue.
The Thirty Year’s War was a human catastrophe. It settled nothing, and it killed uncountable multitudes. One estimate says Germany’s population dropped from 18 million to 4 million. Hunger and deprivation followed. Too few people remained to plant fields, rebuild
cities, or conduct education or commerce.
This disaster helped break the historic entwinement of Christianity and politics. The concluding Peace of Westphalia prescribed an end to the pope’s control over civil governments.
Excerpted from Holy Horrors: An Illustrated History of Religious Murder and Madness by James A. Haught. Copyright © James A. Haught, 2002. All rights reserved.
https://churchandstate.org.uk/2022/06/h ... loodbaths/

https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Horrors-Ill ... 1573927783
Habria que empezar por el mismisimo dios del antiguo testamento. Cuantos mato en el supuesto diluvio universal?

O entre cristianos :
Throughout Europe, the number of wars, expulsions, massacres, and executions that accompanied the Reformation are almost beyond counting. Following are the major Christian-versus-Christian bloodbaths:
France
Protestantism sprouted in Catholic France, and King Henry II vowed to destroy it. He created a heresy court that became known as the Burning Chamber because of its standard sentence for Huguenots (the French name for Protestants). In 1559, France and Spain signed a treaty agreeing to extirpate Protestantism from their lands.
For a while, French queen mother Catherine de Medici allowed Huguenots to worship in certain locales. But Catholic dukes massacred the worshipers—setting off religious warfare that broke out again and again. Altogether, eight Huguenot wars occurred between 1562 and 1589. Each side was brutal. Huguenot soldiers smashed church ornaments and hunted priests like animals. One captain wore a necklace of priests’ ears. A French observer reported:
“It would be impossible to tell you what barbarous cruelties are committed by both sides. Where the Huguenot is master, he ruins the images and demolishes the sepulchres and tombs. On the other hand, the Catholic kills, murders, and drowns all those whom he knows to be of that sect, until the rivers overflow with them.”
Pope Pius sent troops to France to help fight the Huguenots, and ordered the commander to kill every prisoner taken. Pius was later canonized as a saint.
After the third war, Catherine de Medici sought to end the horror by arranging the marriage of her daughter to a young Huguenot prince, Henry of Navarre. Perversely, when Huguenots gathered in Paris for the wedding under a promise of safe passage, Catherine plotted with Catholic dukes to assassinate the Huguenot military leader, Admiral Gaspard de Coligny. The assassin missed, merely wounding the admiral—so Catherine and the dukes hastily decided to murder all Huguenots before they had time to counterattack. On the night of August 24, 1572—St. Bartholomew’s Day—Catholic troops swept through Huguenot neighborhoods in Paris, slaughtering thousands. Coligny was beheaded. Other massacres were staged throughout France.
Coligny’s head was sent to Rome, where Pius’s successor, Pope Gregory XIII, received it joyfully. He and the whole college of cardinals offered a mass of thanksgiving. The pope struck a medal celebrating the Catholic victory and commissioned the artist Giorgio Vasari to paint a fresco of the triumph over the Huguenots.
SAINT BARTHOLOMEW’S DAY MASSACRE: ANNIVERSARY. Aug 24, 1572. Massacre in Paris and throughout France of thousands of Protestant Huguenots. Pope Gregory XIII ordered a medal struck to commemorate the event, but Protestant countries abhorred the killings, estimated at 5k to 30k. pic.twitter.com/TQooeSERAa
— Genealogy Bargains (@geneabargains) August 24, 2021
The St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre naturally triggered a fourth Huguenot war, and four more followed. Finally, Huguenot Henry of Navarre was offered the crown as king of France if he would convert to Catholicism. He did so, saying cynically, “Paris is worth a mass.” He issued the Edict of Nantes allowing Protestants to worship. After his death, however, all civil rights were stripped from Huguenots and they were persecuted ruthlessly. More civil wars erupted in the 1620s. In 1715, King Louis XIV proudly declared that all Protestantism had been suppressed in France.
Hundreds of thousands of Huguenots fled during the horrors. One colony settled in Florida, preceding what is now St. Augustine. A Spanish expedition discovered the colony in 1565 and killed virtually every person. The Spanish commander erected a sign saying the settlers were executed “not as Frenchmen but as Lutherans.”
The Low Countries
When Protestantism took root in the Low Countries, Catholic rulers vowed to obliterate it at any cost. Dowager queen Mary of Hungary, regent of Flanders, ordered execution of all heretics, “care being taken only that the provinces are not entirely depopulated.” The Inquisition killed multitudes. Mary decreed that Protestants who recanted would be spared burning; instead, the men would be killed by sword and the women buried alive.
The great Flemish mapmaker Gerardus Mercator was caught in a roundup of suspected Lutherans in 1544. Of those arrested with him, two were burned, two were buried alive, and one was beheaded. Mercator finally was released through efforts of his parish priest.
Spanish King Philip II, ruler of Holland and Belgium, was obsessed with halting Protestantism in those lands. He revived the Inquisition and commanded: “Let all prisoners be put to death, and suffer them no longer to escape through the neglect, weakness, and bad faith of the judges.” Protestants rebelled and burned 400 Catholic churches. The Duke of Alva was sent to smash Protestant towns. His onslaught was called “the Spanish fury.” He killed thousands in Antwerp and massacred Haarlem Protestants in 1573. He set up a heresy court, popularly called the Bloody Tribunal, which sent throngs of suspected Protestants to be executed. A Dutch chronicler wrote:
“The gallows, the wheel, stakes, trees along the highways, were laden with carcasses or limbs of those who had been hanged, beheaded, or roasted.”
One of the victims was Count Egmont, whose martyrdom was commemorated by Beethoven in the Egmont Overture.
In the northern districts of Holland, Protestants led by William of Orange declared their independence from Catholic Spain. Philip II offered 25,000 crowns of gold for William’s assassination, and he was killed in 1584. But William’s militant Calvinists continued fighting
until they secured Protestant independence for the northern provinces.
England
The Catholic Church decreed that the Bible could be printed only in Latin, restricting it to priests and scholars. Printing it in a common language for common people was punishable by death. In England in the 1520s, William Tyndale sought permission to translate the New Testament into English so “every plowboy” might read it. The request put his life in danger, and he fled to Lutheran territory in Germany. He completed a translation and smuggled copies back to England—where they were seized and burned by Catholic bishops. Tyndale eventually was captured in Antwerp by Catholic authorities, who tried him for heresy and had him strangled and burned. (Later, much of Tyndale’s magnificent prose was incorporated into the King James version of the Bible.)
The execution of William Tyndale, 1536. Translating the Bible into English gave him some very powerful enemies, who eventually caught up with him. https://t.co/vD0oIEtQqh
— John Welford (@welfordwrites) June 15, 2022
English King Henry VIII, who cynically used religion for power, had attempted to capture and try Tyndale. Henry also denounced Martin Luther and Protestantism, for which the pope gratefully proclaimed him a “Defender of the Faith.”
But when Henry wanted to divorce Catherine of Aragon, and the pope refused permission, the headstrong king arranged to divorce England from Catholicism. Parliament made the king, not the pope, supreme head of the church in England. Henry chose an obedient archbishop, Thomas Cranmer, who dissolved his unwanted marriage. Henry also seized the rich lands of formerly Catholic monasteries throughout England. The pope excommunicated Henry and tried to mount a crusade against England, but Catholic rulers around Europe declined to participate.
Henry fashioned a formal Church of England retaining most Catholic dogmas—and made it a capital offense to doubt those dogmas. Thus he executed stubborn Catholics such as Sir Thomas More, who voiced loyalty to the pope, and he also burned Lutherans who questioned transubstantiation. After Henry was succeeded by his 10-year-old son, Edward VI, further breaks from Catholicism were achieved by Archbishop Cranmer.
Edward was succeeded in 1553 by Mary I, daughter of Henry and Catherine of Aragon—and she became history’s “Bloody Mary.” An ardent Catholic, she sought to restore England to Catholicism through terror. In three years, she burned 300 Protestants alive. Archbishop
Cranmer wavered, first embracing Catholicism, then renouncing it. He was sent to the stake but he impressed the crowd by declaring his shame at recanting, and thrust into the flames his hand that had betrayed him by signing an oath to the pope.
When bishops Nicholas Ridley and Hugh Latimer went to the stake, the latter declared: “Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man. We shall this day light such a candle by God’s grace in England as I trust shall never be put out.” He was right. The English, sickened by the executions and impressed by the martyrs’ bravery, turned intensely Protestant.
On this day, in 1555, Nicholas Ridley & Hugh Latimer were burned at the stake for preaching justification by faith alone. Latimer said, “Be of good cheer, Master Ridley, and play the man; we shall this day light a candle in England, by God’s grace, that shall never be put out.” pic.twitter.com/9ZYGfbvnUU
— Dustin Benge (@DustinBenge) October 16, 2021
When Elizabeth I succeeded to the throne, she sought to end the religious killings. But she was caught in a church crossfire. From one side, Catholics plotted against her life and staged a rebellion in the north. From the other side, extreme Protestant Puritans and Separatists raged against popery and “Romish dregs” in the Church of England. In retaliation, Parliament passed harsh laws making it treason to celebrate the Catholic mass, and also forbidding Puritan worship. A fine of twenty pounds a month was imposed on anyone not attending Anglican services.
About 200 Catholics were executed as traitors under Elizabeth—and Mary, Queen of Scots, was beheaded because Catholics conspired to put her on Elizabeth’s throne. In addition, three fanatical Puritans were put to death.
Amid this strife, King Philip II sent the Spanish Armada on a holy mission to force England’s return to Catholicism. But that too failed, and England remained Protestant.
Scotland
Before Mary, Queen of Scots, met the headsman in England, she participated in Catholic-Protestant bloodshed in Scotland.
The Reformation brought the same horror to Scotland as to other lands. The Catholic parliament banned Lutheran books and preaching. Cardinal David Beaton burned Protestant leaders Patrick Hamilton and George Wishart. Then their followers murdered Beaton, hung his body from the wall of St. Andrew’s Castle, and barricaded themselves in the castle.
John Knox became chief of the besieged Protestants. When French Catholic troops finally helped Scottish Catholics seize the castle, Knox and his colleagues were sent into slavery aboard French galleys. English intervention obtained his release nineteen months later, and he began preaching in England and on the continent.
Scotland was ruled by Mary of Lorraine, of France’s fiercely Catholic House of Guise. She denounced Scot Protestants as heretics. Protestant lairds rebelled, summoned Knox from Geneva to be their voice, and waged war against Catholic strongholds. They seized Edinburgh and, with English help, gained control of Scotland. A Protestant parliament renounced the pope and decreed death to anyone who attended Catholic mass more than twice.
Mary of Lorraine died and her 18-year-old daughter, also Mary, came from France to be queen of Scots. She was an immature Catholic ruler in a land seething with Protestantism. She might have coped, but she married a Catholic scoundrel, then conspired to have him murdered, then married his chief assassin. Protestant lairds rebelled again. They defeated Mary’s Catholic troops at Carberry Hill near Edinburgh and jailed her in an island castle.
Mary escaped, and another Catholic army rallied around her—but it too was smashed by Protestant forces. Mary fled to England, where she was imprisoned eighteen years by Queen Elizabeth, until Catholic insurrection plots finally led to her beheading.
Thirty Years’ War
The last great spasm of the Reformation was its worst. The Thirty Years’ War, from 1618 to 1648, killed millions in Central Europe and left Germany a wasteland of misery.
"The Thirty Years' War was largely waged within the Holy Roman Empire from 1618 to 1648. One of the most destructive wars in European history, it caused an estimated 4.5 to 8 million deaths." https://t.co/Y0DLX1pcdk
— Church and State (@ChurchAndStateN) June 21, 2022
It began because Catholic Habsburg rulers of the Holy Roman Empire tried to suppress growing Calvinism in regions already smoldering with Catholic-Lutheran tensions. Evangelical princes formed a defensive alliance, the Protestant Union. The other side formed the Catholic League. They faced each other like ticking bombs—which finally exploded over a trifle: Protestant nobles entered the imperial palace in Prague and threw two Catholic ministers out a window into a dungheap, touching off war.
Catholic armies quickly slaughtered the Protestant forces. The conflict might have ended then, but Catholic Emperor Ferdinand II decided to eradicate Protestantism entirely. The faith was outlawed and cruel persecution was inflicted.
Protestants appealed for foreign help, and Protestant King Christian IV of Denmark sent an army to their rescue. Lutheran and Calvinist German princes joined him. Once again the Protestants were defeated, once again Ferdinand resumed religious oppression, and once again the victims sought outside aid.
Next, Protestant King Gustav Adolph of Sweden marched into Germany to rescue his fellow believers. His soldiers sang Martin Luther’s hymn Ein Teste Burg in battle. Terrible slaughter occurred. A Catholic army captured Magdeburg and massacred its Protestant residents. King Gustav was killed, and his troops wreaked vengeance on Catholic peasants.
Eventually the war turned more political than religious. Catholic France entered on the side of the Protestants, in an attempt to cripple the rival Habsburgs. The killing dragged on decade after decade until both sides were too exhausted to continue.
The Thirty Year’s War was a human catastrophe. It settled nothing, and it killed uncountable multitudes. One estimate says Germany’s population dropped from 18 million to 4 million. Hunger and deprivation followed. Too few people remained to plant fields, rebuild
cities, or conduct education or commerce.
This disaster helped break the historic entwinement of Christianity and politics. The concluding Peace of Westphalia prescribed an end to the pope’s control over civil governments.
Excerpted from Holy Horrors: An Illustrated History of Religious Murder and Madness by James A. Haught. Copyright © James A. Haught, 2002. All rights reserved.
https://churchandstate.org.uk/2022/06/h ... loodbaths/

https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Horrors-Ill ... 1573927783
El que apoya o justifica al que viola la ley, actua inmoralmente, es un enfermo mental autodestructivo.
- Don Cuchara D`Mata
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
Claro, claro!Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:34 pmen mi caso, lo único que deseo es acabar con los principales prejuicios culturales que esc0ñetan a la humanidad, enseñarle a las futuras generaciones que la vida se puede vivir plena y en paz socialmente sin tener que recurrir a seres imaginarios, sino en saber respetar a los demás y que no cultiven ese odioso vicio que es la hipocresía, que sean honestos mas consigo mismos que con los demás....Don Cuchara D`Mata escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:08 pm ....
Qué tiene un ateo que discutir sobre religion? En mi opinion nada, por qué lo hacemos? Porque sentimos un morbo único, nos encanta llevar al extremo la paciencia de los credulos, comprobar cuan profunda y autentica es esa fe con la que se escudan, pero que es quebrantada por ellos mismos cuando la oportunidad se les ha presentado.
...
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
Buzz escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:41 pmLos ateos durante la guerra civil española ejecutaron a más de 6000 sacerdotes y religiosasverdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:39 pm Los revolucionarios de Francia y los comunistas mataron a más gente en nombre de su ateísmo fundamentalista.
En España llegaron incluso al extremo de ejecutar una estatua del crucificado.
¿y cuantos mató la inquisición española en nombre de cristo?
¿o es que "nooo valeee tu vives en el pasado, eso nadie lo recuerda, estamos en el siglo 21 por dios, superalo"?
“Si ellos siguen repitiendo sus mentiras, nosotros tenemos que seguir repitiendo la verdad” Ludwig von Mises
- Axio
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
fuente que afirme tal declaración?verdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:39 pmLos revolucionarios de Francia y los comunistas mataron a más gente en nombre de su ateísmo fundamentalista.Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:36 pmbueno si vamos a mezclar religión con política, te recuerdo que el galáctico de barinas era un ferviente y devoto cristiano, que iba a misa y siempre sacaba un cristo en las cadenas presidenciales.verdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:34 pm
Los ateos fundamentalistas de la Revolución Francesa y los comunistas han matado a más gente.
¿indica o implica eso algo?
en lo absoluto.....
En España llegaron incluso al extremo de ejecutar una estatua del crucificado.
aparte, si ampliamos un poquito mas el rango historicamente, digamos hacia MILES de años atrás, entonces repitamos tu afirmación pero a la inversa y en forma de pregunta:
¿cuantas personas han matado las religiones en nombre de dios?
¿estás seguro que los ateos han matado mas gente que los teistas?
pnnnnn no mas preguntas su señoría.....
“Si ellos siguen repitiendo sus mentiras, nosotros tenemos que seguir repitiendo la verdad” Ludwig von Mises
- verdinegro
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
¿Ahora crees en el Antiguo Testamento?Lander escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:56 pm Se va a discutir quien mato mas gente ? En serio ?
Habria que empezar por el mismisimo dios del antiguo testamento. Cuantos mato en el supuesto diluvio universal?
Pero sí, los libros escritos por judíos, sean la Biblia o los de Marx y Lenin, han sido los responsables de más muertes. Pero más los comunistas pues antes no existía tanta gente.
Y el diluvio no fue una lluvia solamente. Fue el resultado del descongelamiento tras la última era glacial y por eso está presente en todos los mitos. No fue culpa de ningún dios.
- verdinegro
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
El Libro Negro del Comunismo sitúa la cifra en 100 millones.Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 1:08 pmfuente que afirme tal declaración?verdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:39 pmLos revolucionarios de Francia y los comunistas mataron a más gente en nombre de su ateísmo fundamentalista.Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:36 pm
bueno si vamos a mezclar religión con política, te recuerdo que el galáctico de barinas era un ferviente y devoto cristiano, que iba a misa y siempre sacaba un cristo en las cadenas presidenciales.
¿indica o implica eso algo?
en lo absoluto.....
En España llegaron incluso al extremo de ejecutar una estatua del crucificado.
aparte, si ampliamos un poquito mas el rango historicamente, digamos hacia MILES de años atrás, entonces repitamos tu afirmación pero a la inversa y en forma de pregunta:
¿cuantas personas han matado las religiones en nombre de dios?
¿estás seguro que los ateos han matado mas gente que los teistas?
pnnnnn no mas preguntas su señoría.....![]()
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![]()
- Axio
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
lógica teista:
cuando el hombre mata a otro: "no ese debió ser un ateo, seguro que las razones fueron razones ateas"
cuando el que lo mató es un hombre del clero: "fue un mandato divino, dios lo puso a prueba, fue una prueba de fe"
jua jua jua estos teistas están mas locos que los trans binarios..... si no la ganan a la entrada la ganan a la salida, con ellos no hay perdidas, siempre le buscan la vueltas a sus incongruencias mentales.....
cuando el hombre mata a otro: "no ese debió ser un ateo, seguro que las razones fueron razones ateas"
cuando el que lo mató es un hombre del clero: "fue un mandato divino, dios lo puso a prueba, fue una prueba de fe"
jua jua jua estos teistas están mas locos que los trans binarios..... si no la ganan a la entrada la ganan a la salida, con ellos no hay perdidas, siempre le buscan la vueltas a sus incongruencias mentales.....
“Si ellos siguen repitiendo sus mentiras, nosotros tenemos que seguir repitiendo la verdad” Ludwig von Mises
- Axio
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Re: Cuidado teólogos, los creadores de falsas esperanzas: ni los favores divinos ni la vida después de la muerte existen
uff que alivio, pensé que habías dicho el libro negro del ateismo.verdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 1:11 pmEl Libro Negro del Comunismo sitúa la cifra en 100 millones.Axio escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 1:08 pmfuente que afirme tal declaración?verdinegro escribió: Jue Dic 29, 2022 12:39 pm
Los revolucionarios de Francia y los comunistas mataron a más gente en nombre de su ateísmo fundamentalista.
En España llegaron incluso al extremo de ejecutar una estatua del crucificado.
aparte, si ampliamos un poquito mas el rango historicamente, digamos hacia MILES de años atrás, entonces repitamos tu afirmación pero a la inversa y en forma de pregunta:
¿cuantas personas han matado las religiones en nombre de dios?
¿estás seguro que los ateos han matado mas gente que los teistas?
pnnnnn no mas preguntas su señoría.....![]()
![]()
![]()
por cierto, ¿ahora si reconoces que tu bello faro de luz contribuyeron en esos 100 millones de muertos? porque no todos fueron para mao.....
y y y y por cierto, ya asumido lo anterior, ¿donde estaba el patriarca ruso y la iglesia ortodoxa cuándo en rusia exterminaban a esos millones complementarios? ¿dónde estaba ese dios ortodoxo que no hizo nada? ¿o es que lenin/stalin fueron elegidos para enviarle mas pronto mas gente hacia el señor¿¿???
“Si ellos siguen repitiendo sus mentiras, nosotros tenemos que seguir repitiendo la verdad” Ludwig von Mises